Sunday, May 9, 2010

Lesbians and Dickgirls

I have had repeated questions about dickgirls and lesbian actions and training for the game.

In the Masterbloodfer forum there was a long discussion on these questions
So can a dickgirl be a lesbian or would a lesbian want a dickgirl as her lover.

There are two sides to this discussion

a) Dickgirl is the perfect lesbian
A woman who can also fuck her lover, it is just like using a strap-on after all.

b) She has a cock so she is not quite a woman
It is the psychological aspect here, the dickgirl has a cock, so it mixes things up and it is no longer a woman loving a woman but becomes something almost heterosexual

After long discussions I was convinced the psychological aspects mattered the most. A dickgirl can love and have sex with a woman of course but this is sex with a cock involved and is not quite lesbian. Yes is is a gray area, but eventually we decided lesbian mean love and sex between two women, purely women, no actual cocks. For the strap-on analogue it was argued that in real lesbian relationships, not porn movies, strap-ons are uncommon.


Lesbian Training
This means in the game a dickgirl cannot enter Lesbian Training and if a girl becomes a dickgirl then Lesbian Training is stopped.

Lessbian Sex Act
The sex training 'Lesbian' is a little gray, but if you consider this act is most likely to entertain and arouse their owner, in this case most likely male owner. So this is not lesbian love and sex it is a play of lesbianism.


  1. if your going to be this why not just include lesbian as the sex action and up it as lesbian stat if you choose women? anyway I thought the lesbian act was something the slave was being trained in rather than sexual persuasion.
    but its your game so I wont argue.

  2. I've wondered that myself, often thought that you're training your slave to be able to satisfy anyone, male or female. I mean if she is owned by a man, he will expect her to perform not only with him, but anyone he chooses, be it a man or woman, regardless of her personal preferences. If thats the case why have lesbian thing at all? Why not train her both ways? And have her preference bonus, either positively or negatively her happiness and obedience, depending on the actions you insist she perform.

  3. If you train your slave as a lesbian, ie use 'Lesbian Trainer' skill and start the training, then you are doing a 2 fold training

    a) to satisfy a lesbian owner, not a male

    b) to become lesbian so as to completely understand and server her lesbian owner

  4. It seems like the fanbase isn't happy with either choice, so wouldn't it be better to have an option that toggles whether the game allows dickgirls to be with lesbians?

  5. Totally not on topic, but my friend pointed out that a few pictures of mine turn up in your program. First let me state that I am flattered and welcome my artwork being used in such a way. But I really would have appreciated an email or something so I could be aware that you were using my artwork. That being said, as long as my contributions are mentioned in the credits of this game, I have no problem with contributing, and I welcome being an active participant to your engine, as long as the game stays free to all. Next time, I'd appreciate you looking me up at My email is posted there under the contact information section. Thank you for your time, and keep up the good work sir. ^_^


  6. Thank you Jonathon I have updated the credits page to thanks you and link to your blog. Thanks for allowing me to use your works.

    I did not know about your blog, I think I got your works from the old GotFan art site.

  7. With all due respect, if the 'psychological factor' is the key element, then I would think it would work the other way around. yes, she's being fucked by a cock, and yes, strap-ons are more common in porn than in real life lesbian relationships; Still, the PERSON she's fucking, aside from having a dick, is still a woman by all other aspects, correct?

    It's mostly just conjecture and assumptions because there isn't an abundance of futanari or hermaphrodites in real life like there is in hentai or this game; Even so, when you think about it on a deeper level besides just sex, that futa girl, when fully clothed, would probably look just like any other normal girl going about her daily life. from an outsiders point of view, the two of them would look like normal lesbian lovers walking down the street or whatever. it's really only in the bedroom that the cock has any vote. I mean, look at all the doujins on futanari palace. how many of them have futa characters who apear and act like women until they undress?
    And even then, when the normal girl looks at the person she's having sex with, what does she see? another woman, right? I'm sure the fact that she has a cock throws it off a little bit, but again, the person she's fucking is another woman for the most part.

    So I guess it comes down to the definition of the word lesbian. I always thought it meant 'a woman who loves women', not 'a woman who doesn't like cock'.

    I don't mean to start an argument in your blog, but I felt like I had to voice my opinion, so I apologize in advance if this stirs up a bees nest. I still love the game, thanks for all the hard work. Keep it up :D.

  8. I agree with unknownabyss with the turn on/off thing with lesbian/hermos

  9. If it is taken as a pure matter of definition then a Lesbian is a homosexual, and a Dickgirl or Futanari or Hermaphrodite is by gender both male and female or more properly a third gender (regardless of which phenotypical expression they take), thus not female and thus not a lesbian even if they sleep with only women. A homosexual Futanari would only be a homosexual if they only had sex with others Futanari.
    All that said, if it's your world and your story you can make them work how you want to, and I won't care because I don't play this game to think.

  10. As a side note, Women from the Isle of Lesbos were more known it the Greek World for being excellent at the act of Fellatio rather than any greater amount of same sex pairings. Then again a Tribadist was the Latin term for the active Sexual partner and had nothing to do with gender of either. Interesting how things change, no?
    Oh and I would like it if some girls started out as lesbians and you spend some time turning them the other way, though most homosexuals I know claim neither is really possible, merely people are more bisexual than they know.
    Sorry, I'll stop ranting now.

  11. To comment on FallenFenix's post, there are many reasons for a women to be a lesbian, not liking or being comfortable with cocks is one of them.

    On the psychological aspect, I would say it depends on if the futa identifies as a male or a female and if their partner identifies them the same way, and that would determine the hetero/homosexuality of the relationship

    So in a nutshell, its a really gray area and I say if cmacleod42 felt the need to put in an option that said a futa slave maker counts as a lesbian for purposes of the sex acts then the coding will probably get put in eventually. Otherwise, your options are modify the code for your copy of the game, or play the game and not worry about it.

  12. Regardless of all this stuff, I'm confused as to why dickgirl trainers cannot use the 'Lick Her' action.

  13. Well... i gues that a dickgirl can be a lesbian to dependig on the "kind" of dickgirl she is... in several hentai movies.... dickgirls can be a woman with dicks (and balls) instead of vagina... a woman with dick,balls and vagina and, girls with h oversized clitoris in a shape of a dick... so the first kind of dickgirl bay bi the no lesbian kind, the third one a lesbian kind, and the other one... a middle point........ i guess this only would make all this more confusing....

  14. actually ya, it's the little things like what hilts255 mentioned that bug me the most. the odd part is, most of the time when I hit 'lick her' (as a futa trainer), even though it says 'have a male slave perform cunnilingus', 99% of the time it ends up doing the action personally, I.E. 'you have her sit down, and with years of practice...'. probably just a wording oversight?

    I think the discussion is pretty interesting, but I don't really have any new points to bring to the table. What Denny and John said both make sense to me, however I still define (most) futas as simply women who have dicks, so I guess it's just an opinion thing. Maybe that's my brain rationalizing it in a homophobic manner? lol.

    in any case I would be for the idea of putting in a preference toggle button.

    PS: on a partially related note, I was under the impression that in this version of slavemaker, lesbian training would be an acquirable skill. Is starting as a lesbian trainer still the only way or is there another way to get it added to your roster of personal skills?

  15. FallenFenix, Unless something changed then yes you can get lesbian training. I am a male slave trainer and I picked it up anyway. :P If I recall you need to encounter a pink haired girl at the docks and that will start you on your way.

  16. As a note I generally consider a dickgirl a woman with a cock, certainly as most slavegirls are women who become dickgirls.

    But this does not affect the idea/though that a woman may consider a dickgirl at least partly a man. That is why the restrictions on acts.

    A dickgirl slave trainer cannot do 'Lick Her' because a dickgirl is at least perceived as a woman, and doing that is basically then a lesbian act. The act 'Lick Her' is 'male licks a woman' with no lesbian connotations.

    Remember the grayness here, a person can be confused if a dickgirl is a man or a woman or both.

  17. I am against anything that restricts fun to be had in this game, and restricting dickgirls from certain acts is definitely that.

  18. The problem most people have, is they don't understand people...

    #1) Most people have a fantasy about what they like and don't like. We call this their "type" (Makoto from Sailor Moon had a type and it was a running gag throughout the show). This fantasy is based on an early relationship with some one (parent, sibling, friend) or some thing (anime character, tentacle monster :P ). This type will continue to affect their interests as they grow older, but it can be overcome. The vast majority of these types are memories or fantasy projections... (romance is essentially a fantasy projection)

    #2) People can overcome their type by either replacing it with a better type (forming more realistic relationships - positive, builds interest) or through trauma (fantasy annihilation, bad relationships, "forced" situations - negative, destroys interest).

    #3) At the core of all sexual and romantic relationships are need and fantasy fulfillment. At the core of all sexual deviancy is escape and degradation / self-destruction (deviancy and fetishes are addictions and almost always overwhelm normal behavior). Almost all deviant acts destroy self-esteem and self-control (embodied in Temperament, Obedience, Nymphomania, and Lust stats).

    If Cmac wants to take this game to another level, he'll need to add personality and memory to the characters and events (characters remembering what you do to them and either hating or loving you for it - never disagreeing to sexual acts until after the act has occured, at which point they are permanently "scarred"). The dichotomy between treating the character as human and treating them as product, as well as its effects on the Slave Maker and the society at large (maybe people will look at you differently if you only create monsters - effecting relationships with the overall cast), is an interesting one and could actually add considerable depth to the story behind it (Comedy and Tragedy - think about what would happen if one of your slaves is ultimately unhappy and seeks to get her retribution on YOU or the one who purchased her... ). Of course, this will stop being a parody once you have to live with the effects of the choices you make...

    There are also a few suggestions I would make: have all contracts to the buyers go through the Slave Maker's Guild and introduce generic contracts for Slave Auction (those characters you run into who are interested in your slave can attempt to enter the Auction and obtain them legally, including yourself - though you could choose to give them away once you purchase them, like to the Bounty Hunter - Remember, Cmac, no one will sell or give away a slave once you've introduced "Reputation", so you've essentially killed one of the older core game mechanics, that is, choosing the person who owns them). Maybe a few repeatably slavable generic characters with wider options might be worth looking into.

    Also, I would break up sexual acts into male and female ones instead of trying to generalize this so much. A woman gets access to male acts when owning a male slave, for instance. A dickgirl can do most male and female acts, including lesbian ones, but the emotional effects of said acts are different. Sexual partners should have a strong effect on sexual identity (relationships between slaves might add considerable depth). I would start by selecting the partner and then choosing the acts based on their... "capabilities".

    Wow... a bit much, but I rarely write often...

  19. Is there a version of this i can play on the ipad?

  20. alexander
    The games is playable on Mac and Linux systems, so I would think it would play on anm ipad. As long as you can play Flash files just open the file SlaveMaker3.swf in your player or browser

  21. I'm having an issue where no slaves load into the slave market so I basically can't play. What am I doing wrong??

  22. you have finished the game, gratz
    or you have not enouth renown to train the rest

  23. Aaron
    As yaho notes, or if you have not played before, then you have incorrectly extracted the archive. Try and extract again. Do not extract each part separately, just the first part.

  24. thanks I'll try re-extracting

  25. I am liking some of the points being brought up here but i have had several character completions of dickgirl lesbians. The easier ones are shampoo, akane, ayane and rei. Just have them agree to lesbian training before doing the events that complete the transformation.

    One thing I would like to see is being able to change the genders of the slave maker themselves. at least more than just the bad end from astrid. And in doing so opening up other slaver maker jobs for more experienced trainers such as changing from a female to a dickgirl and astrid offering you a job cock milking.

    I would also like to point out that beside the dickgirl there is another hermaphrodite called a vagboy who may or may not have breasts and a vagina or both. One good example of this is a manga called copipe (or kopipe) where both a girl and a boy are turned into hermaphrodites.

    well that's my 2 cents on the matter.

  26. Flagnin1
    That is not supposed to happen, it is a bug that I'll fix

    There are a couple of non-bad end gender changes in the game. Try training Yurika, and also see what happens in the milking event when your slave realises what is happening. Confront the farmer.

    I have no interest in a vagboy, others can develop for their slave but not me

  27. still trying to find out how to get the lesbian trainer skill on a slaver who didn't start with it...

    I tried going to the docks a lot like someone above suggested, I found the girl that asks your slave to lick her, but I can't seem to get it to go any further than that. what steps do I need to take to get this skill?

  28. FallenFenix
    Are you personally supervising your slave? Tena will make an offer to you, not your assistant

  29. no don't fix it its fun and qwerky. pls its such a pain to get them to do it its not really worth wasting your time fixing.

    To Fallen i have had the best luck in finding her in town. you have to personally supervise her walks till you meet Tena then she will tell you to come visit her. (I think your slave has to be fully female too). after that you have to visit her 10 times then you get rank one in the lesbian skill.

    The one I'm stuck on is getting rieze to take her rightful place as the tentacle queen. She just doesn't want to start going after the other girls.

  30. Flagnine1
    For general gameplay help I really suggest you visit one of the forums, there is plenty of people to help.
    Also the wiki is useful for questions like this.
    a) submit to the tentacles 5+ times
    b) find the girls, there are some slight variations depending on your slavemakers faith

  31. Also, the lesbian dickgirl issue was fixed last night

  32. Just my personal opinion. Since dickgirls have both male and female parts I think Dickgirl actions should be treated as neutral for changing sexuality. I also think that lesbian trainers should be able to train dickgirls, since it's important for some endings, and that Old Faith followers should have some equivalent alternative to acolyte training and theology training.

  33. Im having a bit of a problem with the backgrounds. For example Tenticle Hybrid? doesnt seem to do anything but keep away tenticles and sometimes I dont want tenticles to be kept away at all. So either I would suggest giving the player the option to repel or attract tenticles based on preference or what theyre aiming to do (as it completely shuts out Rei's Tenticle Queen ending) and possibly adding more to the background effects, because to use Tenticle Hybrid? as an example again, the effects:

    -Sometimes you change at night beware the full moon....
    -You are very, very handsome

    don't seem to do anything at all, so, to sum up my problem in a few sentences, theres a problem with some of the backgrounds not working or not doing anything at all and some of the effects of the background arnt very well thought out and shut out sections of the game.
    To fix this I would suggest as I have stated above giving the player the options to change the background slightly giving different effects, this would add alot of scope to the game and give the player alot of new options. You may not want to allow the players to turn off the effects as this could ruin some aspects you like but you could allow them to change them based on the background they currently have. For example, allow the option to both either attract or repel the tenticles to Tenticle Hybrid? as this is something that one should be able to do anyway if they have the power to affect the tenticles behaviour.

  34. DemonFrenzy
    IF you check the release notes, in the game installtion folder (Release Notes.rtf)

    "New Backgrounds/Talents
    There are 11 new backgrounds. and these are basically functional, giving items, skill and stat effects. A lot remains to develop (tentacle scenes for instance) and will be in later releases"

    Most of the new backgrounds are incomplete. I also stated this in the initial release of Slave Maker 3

    For Tentacle Hybrid I have plans for how this will work in detail, please just wait.

    Customising backgrounds is just a lot of work, if you want your slaves affected by tentacles (other than you) do not play Tentacle Hybrid background

  35. Sorry I didnt see thae post about the backgrounds being incomplete I thought it was either an oversight or an accident, and if you say you plan to add and have plans for how it will work then fine by me thats mostly what I wanted to know, if they were going to be changed or modified later or not.
    I must admit I know hardly anything about code and game designing so if what I said earlier about allowing the customisation of the backgrounds is too much work then, Im sorry for bringing it up. Just to let you know I'lll be following the game and the updates and I dont have any real problem how it is at the moment, no offense or complaint was meant, my previous post was a suggestion of what could be improved as I enjoy the game quite alot.
    Thx for thaking the time to reply to my earlier post, Ill be watching for more content on the site. Thx for the game as well I really enjoy it and if you wouldnt mind Id like togive some more suggestions as they come to me l8r on.


  36. P.S. are PonyGirl and Lesbian the only types of trainings available atm? because other than using the backgrounds I have no idea where we could find any other ones, ive played through the game twice and those are the only ones Ive found(though the first time i dint finsih the game completely).
    P.P.S also why are the instruments for both the true gods and no gods the same? I mean if you dont worship the true gods how come you can use their gear?

  37. Holy cows man, this is a masterpiece despite any bugs! Amazingly high replay value here and it's nowhere near an expensive official production.

    You should seriously add a donation option here. I loved this game and I hope you keep working on it!!

  38. wow... I just managed to change my male slave maker into a dickgirl. LOL

    Have Yurika turn into the orgasm milking girl and choose to drink the thing when asked (needs to be repeated several times). I chose yes since it was amusing at first but then I kept choosing and now my SM is a dickgirl with that inhuman ancestry supposed to be male only LOL!


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